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	<title>Comments on: Atheist Conversion or Religious De-conversion</title>
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	<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/</link>
	<description>A Godless Skeptic's Notes on Liberty, Religion, Society, and More...</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Feb 2012 14:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Anni G.</title>
		<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-1247</link>
		<dc:creator>Anni G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 00:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-1247</guid>
		<description>My perspective is that of a former Christian, raised in Lutheran schools and churches until my senior year of high school when I started questioning why I believed what I was being taught. 

To me, the concept of de-conversion is less of a ritual, and more of a statement. Many Christians in my family believe that atheism is a "crisis of faith" or a "temptation" that is only temporary. To them, as an identifying atheist I still belong to the church because I have not joined any other, I have just strayed. 

Of course, that's not to say that we should allow atheism to become a de facto religion. That would go against the very basis of what it is. But when you're constantly being told that "you'll understand when you have kids" it's damn tempting to throw a phrase like de-conversion in their faces.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My perspective is that of a former Christian, raised in Lutheran schools and churches until my senior year of high school when I started questioning why I believed what I was being taught. </p>
<p>To me, the concept of de-conversion is less of a ritual, and more of a statement. Many Christians in my family believe that atheism is a &#8220;crisis of faith&#8221; or a &#8220;temptation&#8221; that is only temporary. To them, as an identifying atheist I still belong to the church because I have not joined any other, I have just strayed. </p>
<p>Of course, that&#8217;s not to say that we should allow atheism to become a de facto religion. That would go against the very basis of what it is. But when you&#8217;re constantly being told that &#8220;you&#8217;ll understand when you have kids&#8221; it&#8217;s damn tempting to throw a phrase like de-conversion in their faces.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-1144</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 14:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-1144</guid>
		<description>Interesting points...  In my opinion, it is a matter of deconverting from a religion that ultimately leads one to atheism.  It is the process of questioning one's belief that leads them down the path of atheism.  And, it doesn't seem to be a simple step; it's not merely a crossroad in which a person decides to go left or right.  Instead, it is a series of winding, connecting roads that intersect at different points.  For me, this "deconversion" was not a quick, easy process; it was not a light that just turned on.  It was being raised an evangelical Christian, beginning to question the scripture as I learned of other religions and cultures, and then asking more philosophical questions about existence, equity, freedom, and equality among human beings.  In order to see the world through an anthropological lens, I had to remove the cultural barriers that were placed upon me through religion.  I had to let go of those things that I was taught were right and wrong according to my religion and see the world as a place where people, despite their shortcomings, frustrations, anger, jealosy, hatred, bigotry, etc., were trying to find happiness in their lives.  Through time, I've learned that there is no one right way to find happiness.  

In terms of faith, I feel that it requires more faith to believe in something that can't be proven.  Yet, the burden of proof is usually left in the hands of the agnostic/atheist who must somehow "prove" that God doesn't really exist.  The fact that an atheist would require evidence to prove the existence of God does not indicate that he or she has "faith", but rather he or she has a "lack of faith"--as opposed to a religious person who is not likely to ask for evidence to support the claim that God exists.  If this argument perplexes Christians, I challenge them to ask how a Christian can be so certain that Zeus is not the one true God?  Or why Islam is not the one true religion?  In a sense, they lack the faith required to believe in something that they feel is not real or true.  Do they have "faith" that Zeus is not God?  Just the opposite, they lack faith in Zeus; and, instead, claim their faith in the Christian God.  

And yet, there is no way anyone could prove that Zeus doesn't really exist; or that Islam is the true religion.  Likewise, there is no way that anyone could prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist, or that Santa doesn't really exist, or the Easter Bunny, and so on.  Essentially, it becomes impossible to prove a negative.  And so, this is why atheists are intrigued by science--not as if it was a God itself--but rather the logic that exists within it that begs the question:  Can a claim be made about our world that could be proven false?  If there is no way that it could be proven false, then one would be relying upon faith, which one would be at risk of believing in something that is not real.  Combine the idea of celebrating an supreme being that could not be proven false with the idea that men and women have used this unprovable supreme being to ultimately dictate the lives of other men, women, and children.  Regardless of what religion these people advocated, they were ALL used man-made, hand written religious scripture to tell people what to believe and what to do.  If a follower were to ask that burdensome question, "WHY", the answer is simple:  "Because GOD says so, that's why!!  And with that, the believer accepts the answer and, feeling a bit embarrassed, is likely not to question these works of men.    

Now this, my friends, requires extraordinary FAITH...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting points&#8230;  In my opinion, it is a matter of deconverting from a religion that ultimately leads one to atheism.  It is the process of questioning one&#8217;s belief that leads them down the path of atheism.  And, it doesn&#8217;t seem to be a simple step; it&#8217;s not merely a crossroad in which a person decides to go left or right.  Instead, it is a series of winding, connecting roads that intersect at different points.  For me, this &#8220;deconversion&#8221; was not a quick, easy process; it was not a light that just turned on.  It was being raised an evangelical Christian, beginning to question the scripture as I learned of other religions and cultures, and then asking more philosophical questions about existence, equity, freedom, and equality among human beings.  In order to see the world through an anthropological lens, I had to remove the cultural barriers that were placed upon me through religion.  I had to let go of those things that I was taught were right and wrong according to my religion and see the world as a place where people, despite their shortcomings, frustrations, anger, jealosy, hatred, bigotry, etc., were trying to find happiness in their lives.  Through time, I&#8217;ve learned that there is no one right way to find happiness.  </p>
<p>In terms of faith, I feel that it requires more faith to believe in something that can&#8217;t be proven.  Yet, the burden of proof is usually left in the hands of the agnostic/atheist who must somehow &#8220;prove&#8221; that God doesn&#8217;t really exist.  The fact that an atheist would require evidence to prove the existence of God does not indicate that he or she has &#8220;faith&#8221;, but rather he or she has a &#8220;lack of faith&#8221;&#8211;as opposed to a religious person who is not likely to ask for evidence to support the claim that God exists.  If this argument perplexes Christians, I challenge them to ask how a Christian can be so certain that Zeus is not the one true God?  Or why Islam is not the one true religion?  In a sense, they lack the faith required to believe in something that they feel is not real or true.  Do they have &#8220;faith&#8221; that Zeus is not God?  Just the opposite, they lack faith in Zeus; and, instead, claim their faith in the Christian God.  </p>
<p>And yet, there is no way anyone could prove that Zeus doesn&#8217;t really exist; or that Islam is the true religion.  Likewise, there is no way that anyone could prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn&#8217;t exist, or that Santa doesn&#8217;t really exist, or the Easter Bunny, and so on.  Essentially, it becomes impossible to prove a negative.  And so, this is why atheists are intrigued by science&#8211;not as if it was a God itself&#8211;but rather the logic that exists within it that begs the question:  Can a claim be made about our world that could be proven false?  If there is no way that it could be proven false, then one would be relying upon faith, which one would be at risk of believing in something that is not real.  Combine the idea of celebrating an supreme being that could not be proven false with the idea that men and women have used this unprovable supreme being to ultimately dictate the lives of other men, women, and children.  Regardless of what religion these people advocated, they were ALL used man-made, hand written religious scripture to tell people what to believe and what to do.  If a follower were to ask that burdensome question, &#8220;WHY&#8221;, the answer is simple:  &#8220;Because GOD says so, that&#8217;s why!!  And with that, the believer accepts the answer and, feeling a bit embarrassed, is likely not to question these works of men.    </p>
<p>Now this, my friends, requires extraordinary FAITH&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Interested</title>
		<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>Interested</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-875</guid>
		<description>Dawn, I could not agree less with your comments. Faith has nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with religion. If we, as atheist, begin to create some dogma, doctrine, creed, etc., then we are just another religion. That is not the case.

And to the meaning of life...survival. I find great meaning everyday as I struggle to understand my environment and cohabitants on this earth. My life has meaning to me and to those whom I love and who return that love. I don't need faith to accomplish that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawn, I could not agree less with your comments. Faith has nothing to do with atheism and everything to do with religion. If we, as atheist, begin to create some dogma, doctrine, creed, etc., then we are just another religion. That is not the case.</p>
<p>And to the meaning of life&#8230;survival. I find great meaning everyday as I struggle to understand my environment and cohabitants on this earth. My life has meaning to me and to those whom I love and who return that love. I don&#8217;t need faith to accomplish that.</p>
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		<title>By: Dawn</title>
		<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-864</link>
		<dc:creator>Dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 15:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-864</guid>
		<description>Meaningless meaning: you still die... you can't take it with you... so whats the point? As Tolstoy said in "A Confession"(part 4) : "The truth was that life is meaningless. I had as it were lived, lived, and walked, walked, till I had come to a precipice and saw clearly that there was nothing ahead of me but destruction. It was impossible to stop, impossible to go back, and impossible to close my eyes or avoid seeing that there was nothing ahead but suffering and real death - complete annihilation."  You can read A Confession
by Lev Nikolayevich Tolstoy here: http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tolstoy/confession.html

Hope this helps,
-Dawn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Meaningless meaning: you still die&#8230; you can&#8217;t take it with you&#8230; so whats the point? As Tolstoy said in &#8220;A Confession&#8221;(part 4) : &#8220;The truth was that life is meaningless. I had as it were lived, lived, and walked, walked, till I had come to a precipice and saw clearly that there was nothing ahead of me but destruction. It was impossible to stop, impossible to go back, and impossible to close my eyes or avoid seeing that there was nothing ahead but suffering and real death - complete annihilation.&#8221;  You can read A Confession<br />
by Lev Nikolayevich Tolstoy here: <a href="http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tolstoy/confession.html" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/flag.blackened.net');">http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tolstoy/confession.html</a></p>
<p>Hope this helps,<br />
-Dawn</p>
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		<title>By: Mana</title>
		<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-861</link>
		<dc:creator>Mana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-861</guid>
		<description>Dawn, can you give examples of atheist faith? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by faith, but your description of "no meaning in the world," has nothing to do with faith or atheism. Atheists find much meaning in the world, especially in humans, their potential, human interactions, all that humans produce, such as art, literature, etc. Many atheists are involved in meaningful causes, environmental, science or education-based. Many atheists care deeply about liberty and justice.

Atheists don't find meaning in a book of scripture, or in superstitions. Is this the meaningless meaning you're talking about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dawn, can you give examples of atheist faith? I&#8217;m not exactly sure what you mean by faith, but your description of &#8220;no meaning in the world,&#8221; has nothing to do with faith or atheism. Atheists find much meaning in the world, especially in humans, their potential, human interactions, all that humans produce, such as art, literature, etc. Many atheists are involved in meaningful causes, environmental, science or education-based. Many atheists care deeply about liberty and justice.</p>
<p>Atheists don&#8217;t find meaning in a book of scripture, or in superstitions. Is this the meaningless meaning you&#8217;re talking about?</p>
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		<title>By: dawn</title>
		<link>http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-860</link>
		<dc:creator>dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 07:55:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticum.com/atheist-conversion-or-religious-de-conversion/#comment-860</guid>
		<description>I think it is converting when a person becomes and atheist, not deconverting. After all, atheists have the stronger faith than any religious group that I know of in the entire world! To believe that there is no god, and therefore, no absolutes or meaning in the world is a cold hard fact is a frightening thing. Sure, we can create meaning in our lives... but when you really think about it, because there is no god, no absolutes, it is just made up "meaning" that is inherently meaningless because we created it in our own minds. It takes lots of faith to be an atheist, so why call it dereconversion? It is in fact a conversion to a different kind of faith. 
Thank you for reading my comment, 
-Dawn 
&lt;a href="http://www.livingwaters.com/good/", rel="nofollow"&gt;http://www.livingwaters.com/good/&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it is converting when a person becomes and atheist, not deconverting. After all, atheists have the stronger faith than any religious group that I know of in the entire world! To believe that there is no god, and therefore, no absolutes or meaning in the world is a cold hard fact is a frightening thing. Sure, we can create meaning in our lives&#8230; but when you really think about it, because there is no god, no absolutes, it is just made up &#8220;meaning&#8221; that is inherently meaningless because we created it in our own minds. It takes lots of faith to be an atheist, so why call it dereconversion? It is in fact a conversion to a different kind of faith.<br />
Thank you for reading my comment,<br />
-Dawn<br />
<a href="http://www.livingwaters.com/good/", rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/www.livingwaters.com');">http://www.livingwaters.com/good/</a></p>
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